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	<title>Comments for "On Game Design"</title>
	<atom:link href="http://dodger.uselessopinions.com/?feed=comments-rss2" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://dodger.uselessopinions.com</link>
	<description>Mike Stout - Video Game Designer</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Wed, 18 Aug 2010 01:46:27 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>Comment on Guest Post: Colin Munson &#8211; &#8220;Challenging Challenges for Thinking People&#8221; by Gringo</title>
		<link>http://dodger.uselessopinions.com/?p=434&#038;cpage=1#comment-725</link>
		<dc:creator>Gringo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Aug 2010 01:46:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dodger.uselessopinions.com/?p=434#comment-725</guid>
		<description>That was very interesting, thank you.  It&#039;s got me thinking about what you said, and I hope you don&#039;t mind if I think aloud right here.  I think you&#039;re right in that many action games make simple tasks very difficult.  I think that the idea of easy/hard is more complex though.  Often action games make simple things very difficult, but through a large amount of practice players learn to do these &quot;simple&quot; (complex) actions by reflex.  That&#039;s what marks a really good FPS player, for instance.  If they find you they shoot you, so they can just concentrate on finding you.  A good RTS player doesn&#039;t worry about keeping his build queue full, he concentrates on deciding what to build.  I, on the other hand, get swarmed by Zerglings.  Even a good shump player isn&#039;t trying to just avoid THAT missile.  They&#039;re trying to plan where they should be in 5 seconds.

I think that this &quot;simple things are hard&quot; is one reason that people who&#039;ve never played games are put off by so many of them.  If you grew up playing &quot;Doom&quot;, then you might not be the best at some FPS, but you have a basic idea of what you&#039;re doing.  If you didn&#039;t you end up walking into a wall and getting shot.  You&#039;re not even good enough that it seems possible to learn, and you just don&#039;t play.

I think you were right at the beginning, when you said that adventure games and action games were opposite.  I disagree that simple actions are hard in adventure games.  In a good adventure game actions are easy.  The challenge becomes deciding WHAT to do instead of concentrating on doing it.  All of the details are abstracted away, and when you think of trying something, you just do, and the result happens.  You can&#039;t do irrelevant things, because it&#039;s too hard to make a game where anything is possible, but anything that makes sense just happens, usually when you click a relevant object.  Bad adventure games, I think, primarily suffer because the actions the user wants to perform don&#039;t match the actions the designer thought the user would want to perform (all of your adventure game cons except &quot;too slow&quot;, and maybe &quot;extremely limited game world&quot;).

I have to say that even though I said in the last paragraph that I thought you were right and action and adventure games were fundamental opposites, that this clearly isn&#039;t purely the case.  I&#039;m thinking, specifically, of &quot;Another World&quot;, which I just found sitting at my parents place and decided to play again.  Wikipedia says it&#039;s a &quot;Cinematic Plat former&quot; which is clearly a form of action game, but much of the game is actually about deciding what to do.  Then, once you&#039;ve figured it out you have to practice a couple times to actually do it in an action sequence.  A great blend, as long as dying doesn&#039;t ruin your suspension of disbelief.

You may have detected in my previous paragraphs a preference for adventure games.  That&#039;s because I have one.  That may make me, perhaps, a bit biased, so keep that in mind.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That was very interesting, thank you.  It&#8217;s got me thinking about what you said, and I hope you don&#8217;t mind if I think aloud right here.  I think you&#8217;re right in that many action games make simple tasks very difficult.  I think that the idea of easy/hard is more complex though.  Often action games make simple things very difficult, but through a large amount of practice players learn to do these &#8220;simple&#8221; (complex) actions by reflex.  That&#8217;s what marks a really good FPS player, for instance.  If they find you they shoot you, so they can just concentrate on finding you.  A good RTS player doesn&#8217;t worry about keeping his build queue full, he concentrates on deciding what to build.  I, on the other hand, get swarmed by Zerglings.  Even a good shump player isn&#8217;t trying to just avoid THAT missile.  They&#8217;re trying to plan where they should be in 5 seconds.</p>
<p>I think that this &#8220;simple things are hard&#8221; is one reason that people who&#8217;ve never played games are put off by so many of them.  If you grew up playing &#8220;Doom&#8221;, then you might not be the best at some FPS, but you have a basic idea of what you&#8217;re doing.  If you didn&#8217;t you end up walking into a wall and getting shot.  You&#8217;re not even good enough that it seems possible to learn, and you just don&#8217;t play.</p>
<p>I think you were right at the beginning, when you said that adventure games and action games were opposite.  I disagree that simple actions are hard in adventure games.  In a good adventure game actions are easy.  The challenge becomes deciding WHAT to do instead of concentrating on doing it.  All of the details are abstracted away, and when you think of trying something, you just do, and the result happens.  You can&#8217;t do irrelevant things, because it&#8217;s too hard to make a game where anything is possible, but anything that makes sense just happens, usually when you click a relevant object.  Bad adventure games, I think, primarily suffer because the actions the user wants to perform don&#8217;t match the actions the designer thought the user would want to perform (all of your adventure game cons except &#8220;too slow&#8221;, and maybe &#8220;extremely limited game world&#8221;).</p>
<p>I have to say that even though I said in the last paragraph that I thought you were right and action and adventure games were fundamental opposites, that this clearly isn&#8217;t purely the case.  I&#8217;m thinking, specifically, of &#8220;Another World&#8221;, which I just found sitting at my parents place and decided to play again.  Wikipedia says it&#8217;s a &#8220;Cinematic Plat former&#8221; which is clearly a form of action game, but much of the game is actually about deciding what to do.  Then, once you&#8217;ve figured it out you have to practice a couple times to actually do it in an action sequence.  A great blend, as long as dying doesn&#8217;t ruin your suspension of disbelief.</p>
<p>You may have detected in my previous paragraphs a preference for adventure games.  That&#8217;s because I have one.  That may make me, perhaps, a bit biased, so keep that in mind.</p>
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		<title>Comment on A list of things that make me happy by Dodger</title>
		<link>http://dodger.uselessopinions.com/?p=321&#038;cpage=1#comment-722</link>
		<dc:creator>Dodger</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 Apr 2010 00:12:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dodger.uselessopinions.com/?p=321#comment-722</guid>
		<description>RCF:TOD made me happy, but  that was the first Ratchet game I didn&#039;t work on.

Good reviews on the originals made me happy.

The fans made me happy.

The friends I made making the game made me happy.

I&#039;m happy I have a career, and that&#039;s in big part because of Ratchet.

So there&#039;s a lot about Ratchet that makes me happy, but it tends to dredge up some painful stuff too.

All things in balance, I suppose.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>RCF:TOD made me happy, but  that was the first Ratchet game I didn&#8217;t work on.</p>
<p>Good reviews on the originals made me happy.</p>
<p>The fans made me happy.</p>
<p>The friends I made making the game made me happy.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m happy I have a career, and that&#8217;s in big part because of Ratchet.</p>
<p>So there&#8217;s a lot about Ratchet that makes me happy, but it tends to dredge up some painful stuff too.</p>
<p>All things in balance, I suppose.</p>
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		<title>Comment on A list of things that make me happy by RedHawk</title>
		<link>http://dodger.uselessopinions.com/?p=321&#038;cpage=1#comment-721</link>
		<dc:creator>RedHawk</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 18 Apr 2010 22:00:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dodger.uselessopinions.com/?p=321#comment-721</guid>
		<description>*high five* for liking portal and having the back of your head rubbed. I love both of those. But why is Ratchet and Clank not on that list? dissapoint.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>*high five* for liking portal and having the back of your head rubbed. I love both of those. But why is Ratchet and Clank not on that list? dissapoint.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Top 10 Biggest Gaming Controversies by Cron-Z</title>
		<link>http://dodger.uselessopinions.com/?p=315&#038;cpage=1#comment-718</link>
		<dc:creator>Cron-Z</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 Dec 2009 14:57:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dodger.uselessopinions.com/?p=315#comment-718</guid>
		<description>You rock, woo!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You rock, woo!</p>
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		<title>Comment on I&#8217;m on a plane! by Dodger</title>
		<link>http://dodger.uselessopinions.com/?p=313&#038;cpage=1#comment-717</link>
		<dc:creator>Dodger</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Nov 2009 04:12:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dodger.uselessopinions.com/?p=313#comment-717</guid>
		<description>THe original title was going to be &quot;I&#039;m on a plane, motherfucker!&quot; in reference to that same sketch.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>THe original title was going to be &#8220;I&#8217;m on a plane, motherfucker!&#8221; in reference to that same sketch.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Trying a variation by Cron-Z</title>
		<link>http://dodger.uselessopinions.com/?p=311&#038;cpage=1#comment-716</link>
		<dc:creator>Cron-Z</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Nov 2009 22:49:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dodger.uselessopinions.com/?p=311#comment-716</guid>
		<description>The new one is so much cleaner and smoother (framerate aside, I mean the rendering). 

I can&#039;t wait to see what this prototype is for :) !</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The new one is so much cleaner and smoother (framerate aside, I mean the rendering). </p>
<p>I can&#8217;t wait to see what this prototype is for <img src='http://dodger.uselessopinions.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' />  !</p>
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		<title>Comment on I&#8217;m on a plane! by Cron-Z</title>
		<link>http://dodger.uselessopinions.com/?p=313&#038;cpage=1#comment-715</link>
		<dc:creator>Cron-Z</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Nov 2009 22:47:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dodger.uselessopinions.com/?p=313#comment-715</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m on a plane; I&#039;m on a plane
Everybody look at me &#039;cuz I&#039;m posting from a plane...
(Very bad &quot;The Lonely Island&quot; reference)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m on a plane; I&#8217;m on a plane<br />
Everybody look at me &#8216;cuz I&#8217;m posting from a plane&#8230;<br />
(Very bad &#8220;The Lonely Island&#8221; reference)</p>
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		<title>Comment on Trying a variation by Dodger</title>
		<link>http://dodger.uselessopinions.com/?p=311&#038;cpage=1#comment-714</link>
		<dc:creator>Dodger</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 16 Nov 2009 19:29:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dodger.uselessopinions.com/?p=311#comment-714</guid>
		<description>I can still make the letters whatever I want them to be (at least that&#039;s still the plan)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I can still make the letters whatever I want them to be (at least that&#8217;s still the plan)</p>
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		<title>Comment on Trying a variation by DaWarMage</title>
		<link>http://dodger.uselessopinions.com/?p=311&#038;cpage=1#comment-713</link>
		<dc:creator>DaWarMage</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 16 Nov 2009 16:46:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dodger.uselessopinions.com/?p=311#comment-713</guid>
		<description>Well the new one is easier to look at.  The choice of characters makes it less chaotic, although I kinda liked the word Plane everywhere, it was subliminal.  :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well the new one is easier to look at.  The choice of characters makes it less chaotic, although I kinda liked the word Plane everywhere, it was subliminal.  <img src='http://dodger.uselessopinions.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>Comment on Some experiments by Dodger</title>
		<link>http://dodger.uselessopinions.com/?p=308&#038;cpage=1#comment-712</link>
		<dc:creator>Dodger</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 13 Nov 2009 20:09:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dodger.uselessopinions.com/?p=308#comment-712</guid>
		<description>Thanks (on both counts)!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks (on both counts)!</p>
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